Dungeon crawls work as a combination of a ruleset and content. While ruleset defines ways to interact with the content, the content sets the pacing. In a way it's similar to racing tracks in racing games, or combination of platforms and chasms in a platformer game. Content is more than "a thing to do", it's the sequence that matters. In general we want to built up the tension and then release it in satisfying ways, and while some of these functions can be transferred to the ruleset (such as systemic resource drains), some rest on pacing the content. If that's true, it might make sense to formalize pacing/tension as a foundation of stocking system, and then work from there. Somewhat similar example would be Left4Dead AI director, which is basically algorithmic stocking GM procedure for a multiplayer shooter game.
On a completely different note, I'd like to share my procedure for generating NPC encounters, which is a mix between an oracle and an overloaded disposition table. Rather than just dropping a random monster in the world, it's designed to create a fruitful situation that players could immediately interact with. In a pinch, it allows to generate random encounters that don't look too generic, without preparing any encounter tables in advance. Example results would be "small trader caravan building an improvised bridge through a narrow river" and "remains of goblin hunters and dire wolf tracks leading away"
I use series of bell curve tables to answer these questions:
1. Who?
- Typical inhabitants of this area
- Rare inhabitants of this area (I usually have 1-2 typical and 3 rare inhabitants jotted down for each area)
- Typical inhabitants of a neighboring area
- Rare inhabitants of a neighboring area
- Somebody completely out of place (if not sure, a wizard!)
2. Doing what?
- Doing what you'd expect them to do in their daily life, considering their role, time, and place.
- Recently had an encounter with another NPC group (roll on the table above)
- In an encounter with another NPC group right now! (roll on the table above)
- Recently had an encounter with a local hazard, obstacle, or phenomena (weather, difficult terrain, traps, anomalies)
- In an encounter with a local hazard, obstacle, or phenomena right now!
- Doing something weird or unexpected for them (mysterious cult ritual, or goblins trying out dresses)
3. How is it going for them?
- Quite well, actually (often means advantage over the players)
- Amazingly well, it's a triumph! (often means celebrating and drunk, or hauling a big prize)
- Deadlock or tense stand off (easy for players to interfere)
- Tough luck (often battered, paranoid and aggressive, hint at upcoming dangers)
- A disaster! (might ask for help, or an easy target)
- Actually they're not here anymore, there's only traces/clues/tracks. Roll this table again to see what actually happened. Figure out where this would lead the players.
Reminds me of the encounter tables in Hot Springs Island. Except, it's a specific table for each hex. Best part are the entries that combine subjects like:
- [local faction member] fleeing from rabid [local fauna].
If you did, it slipped my mind. That's a good system and similar to what I was trying to achieve. It's probably a much better acronym too. :) NODES vs. THORCS! ahhahaha
This whetted my appetite for a full, universally applicable system with details and breakdowns. I'm going to go look at @Sean A Hembree's posts next, if only because he built an app for it. But I really appreciate the work done to look at the old and current D&D tables, as well as the alternatives. I really like the Cairn and Necropraxis table/ideas, but want them specified into useful tables (i.e. "I love the abstract idea... now un-abstract it for me!")
I generally design every location for my campaigns with clear specifics. "This is a dwarven military complex; this room is Operations, that one is Training, these three are the barracks, and this is the mess hall," for example. Or "This location is where the goblin elemental monk trains his new recruits, after selecting the candidates. Outside the rock spire are the guards (ogres and warped elemental wolves) and candidate huts; inside the spire are the cook, the hobgoblin 'consultants', and the lieutenant that does the actual training; the captured dwarven miners are tucked between the consultants and the lieutenant; the Leader's treasure is hidden behind an animated statue in the lieutenant's room; the cook is getting her materials from a strange sludge-dripping faucet in the wall..."
The point of that exposition is that I don't *usually* need a random dungeon generator - "dungeons" for me exist for specific reasons, and have specific contents/foes/obstacles. *BUT* when I *do* need something random, or to whip up a location on the fly because the PCs decided *not* to go to the goblin monk's camp... this is exactly what I need. Or the miles of underground corridors and rooms connecting the goblin tunnels with the old dwarven ruins (the aforementioned training complex)... I just kinda handwaved most of it, and plopped down some set-pieces. This gives me more guidance - I can still handwave the specifics, if using the non-D&D tables (like THORCS!), but have a nice variety of nodes along the journey...
1. Not only do I have a robust dungeon stocking and layout procedure for my own games, I actually developed a desktop web-app that randomly generates and automates process, then let's you customize the results:
As someone that is currently half-assed creating my own solo game as I go because nothing on the market was scratching the itch, and have been banging my head against the wall on this subject for about two weeks now: thank you
this came at a really useful time for me, as i'm running some D&D for some close friends of mine ^^ especially thinking about how to make the game more fun for them, as well as for myself (and for me, especially in "prep") – both for a current "campaign", and for one i have in the planning stages, where i might be attempting something approaching a "megadungeon"... not decided yet, as it's likely still a bit far off in time :) but i do want to lean in hard to what D&D is "good at"; there are so many other games out there, that i (also) want to play, and while D&D isn't necessarily my personal first choice, if i'm going to play it, i want to play to its strengths :) and cool dungeons seems like a good way to do it ^^ i had already seen many of the procedures mentioned, but it was really useful to have them all delineated in one post – and i really like your contribution to the taxonomy as well :D thank you so much <3
Dungeon crawls work as a combination of a ruleset and content. While ruleset defines ways to interact with the content, the content sets the pacing. In a way it's similar to racing tracks in racing games, or combination of platforms and chasms in a platformer game. Content is more than "a thing to do", it's the sequence that matters. In general we want to built up the tension and then release it in satisfying ways, and while some of these functions can be transferred to the ruleset (such as systemic resource drains), some rest on pacing the content. If that's true, it might make sense to formalize pacing/tension as a foundation of stocking system, and then work from there. Somewhat similar example would be Left4Dead AI director, which is basically algorithmic stocking GM procedure for a multiplayer shooter game.
On a completely different note, I'd like to share my procedure for generating NPC encounters, which is a mix between an oracle and an overloaded disposition table. Rather than just dropping a random monster in the world, it's designed to create a fruitful situation that players could immediately interact with. In a pinch, it allows to generate random encounters that don't look too generic, without preparing any encounter tables in advance. Example results would be "small trader caravan building an improvised bridge through a narrow river" and "remains of goblin hunters and dire wolf tracks leading away"
I use series of bell curve tables to answer these questions:
1. Who?
- Typical inhabitants of this area
- Rare inhabitants of this area (I usually have 1-2 typical and 3 rare inhabitants jotted down for each area)
- Typical inhabitants of a neighboring area
- Rare inhabitants of a neighboring area
- Somebody completely out of place (if not sure, a wizard!)
2. Doing what?
- Doing what you'd expect them to do in their daily life, considering their role, time, and place.
- Recently had an encounter with another NPC group (roll on the table above)
- In an encounter with another NPC group right now! (roll on the table above)
- Recently had an encounter with a local hazard, obstacle, or phenomena (weather, difficult terrain, traps, anomalies)
- In an encounter with a local hazard, obstacle, or phenomena right now!
- Doing something weird or unexpected for them (mysterious cult ritual, or goblins trying out dresses)
3. How is it going for them?
- Quite well, actually (often means advantage over the players)
- Amazingly well, it's a triumph! (often means celebrating and drunk, or hauling a big prize)
- Deadlock or tense stand off (easy for players to interfere)
- Tough luck (often battered, paranoid and aggressive, hint at upcoming dangers)
- A disaster! (might ask for help, or an easy target)
- Actually they're not here anymore, there's only traces/clues/tracks. Roll this table again to see what actually happened. Figure out where this would lead the players.
Hope you'll find it useful!
Reminds me of the encounter tables in Hot Springs Island. Except, it's a specific table for each hex. Best part are the entries that combine subjects like:
- [local faction member] fleeing from rabid [local fauna].
- [Roaming NPC] consuming [Roaming NPC]
- [Elemental] competing with [Illusory Figment]
Leads to some very lively encounters.
love this. also i feel like i've already commented about this on one of your posts, but maybe not. really dig this system from level up (A5E):
https://www.levelup5e.com/news/dungeon-delvers-guide-the-nodes-system
If you did, it slipped my mind. That's a good system and similar to what I was trying to achieve. It's probably a much better acronym too. :) NODES vs. THORCS! ahhahaha
Thank you sharing that link!
This whetted my appetite for a full, universally applicable system with details and breakdowns. I'm going to go look at @Sean A Hembree's posts next, if only because he built an app for it. But I really appreciate the work done to look at the old and current D&D tables, as well as the alternatives. I really like the Cairn and Necropraxis table/ideas, but want them specified into useful tables (i.e. "I love the abstract idea... now un-abstract it for me!")
I generally design every location for my campaigns with clear specifics. "This is a dwarven military complex; this room is Operations, that one is Training, these three are the barracks, and this is the mess hall," for example. Or "This location is where the goblin elemental monk trains his new recruits, after selecting the candidates. Outside the rock spire are the guards (ogres and warped elemental wolves) and candidate huts; inside the spire are the cook, the hobgoblin 'consultants', and the lieutenant that does the actual training; the captured dwarven miners are tucked between the consultants and the lieutenant; the Leader's treasure is hidden behind an animated statue in the lieutenant's room; the cook is getting her materials from a strange sludge-dripping faucet in the wall..."
The point of that exposition is that I don't *usually* need a random dungeon generator - "dungeons" for me exist for specific reasons, and have specific contents/foes/obstacles. *BUT* when I *do* need something random, or to whip up a location on the fly because the PCs decided *not* to go to the goblin monk's camp... this is exactly what I need. Or the miles of underground corridors and rooms connecting the goblin tunnels with the old dwarven ruins (the aforementioned training complex)... I just kinda handwaved most of it, and plopped down some set-pieces. This gives me more guidance - I can still handwave the specifics, if using the non-D&D tables (like THORCS!), but have a nice variety of nodes along the journey...
Thank you for the comment! Glad it gave you some inspiration!
Oh lord you got me started.
1. Not only do I have a robust dungeon stocking and layout procedure for my own games, I actually developed a desktop web-app that randomly generates and automates process, then let's you customize the results:
https://gramaryegames.substack.com/p/introducing-the-dungeon-layout-generator?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=3ax2b3
2. Change "Safe" to "Empty" and "THE ORC" was right there.
I spent so long renaming things to try to get it to spell something funny or at least be pronounceable. THE ORC!!! How did I miss that? 😅
This is soo helpful ! I was actually in need of precisely this kind of table to write my first dungeon. Thanks !
That’s great! Thanks!
Maybe it was meant to be a “guide for dungeon masters” and someone got the title the wrong way around!
Is THORCS! Available somewhere?
I thought that was a summary and perhaps there was more to know about, like other tables or so.. but thanks! It’s cool :)
Thanks! If there’s enough interest, I might expand it into something more formal. Maybe make a PDF to put on itch.
It mostly exists as it is in the article above. Do you mean used in a game that has been published?
As someone that is currently half-assed creating my own solo game as I go because nothing on the market was scratching the itch, and have been banging my head against the wall on this subject for about two weeks now: thank you
🙏🤘🫡
Thanks!
this came at a really useful time for me, as i'm running some D&D for some close friends of mine ^^ especially thinking about how to make the game more fun for them, as well as for myself (and for me, especially in "prep") – both for a current "campaign", and for one i have in the planning stages, where i might be attempting something approaching a "megadungeon"... not decided yet, as it's likely still a bit far off in time :) but i do want to lean in hard to what D&D is "good at"; there are so many other games out there, that i (also) want to play, and while D&D isn't necessarily my personal first choice, if i'm going to play it, i want to play to its strengths :) and cool dungeons seems like a good way to do it ^^ i had already seen many of the procedures mentioned, but it was really useful to have them all delineated in one post – and i really like your contribution to the taxonomy as well :D thank you so much <3
Thanks!
1. Now I'm never going to unsee "Dungeon Masters Guide" again. Thanks for that. :)
2. I'm curious as to how many games you find yourself working on at the same time?
1. You're welcome. 😅
2. All of them.